User talk:Zakbos

Sigla

Hi there Zakbos. I see you uploading images of the sigla, but for all but one there are Unicode characters. See Help:contents under 'Markup for Sigla'. Best wishes, Pemberton

How(th)'s that?

• Which tip is that? Eh?

Re: more on more

• Ah-so the problem wasn't Categories but the opinion that "Kate" does not qualify for one.
• I tend to believe that her character deserves one, but I shall bend to the popular opinion. Perhaps there is a rose by some other name?
• The whole "template" thing was something I thought that Zakbos has mentioned earlier as a possible solution - nevermind it.
• Thanks for the Tip!

More on more

• Quite right. Really, my criticism is the inclusion of "Kate" as a Category. "Tauftauf", "HCE", "Liffy", these are suitable lemmata for Category status, and "Ibsen", "Laurence O'Toole", and "Eucharist" suitable themes for Category status. "Kate" I think is a candidate for inclusion in a Category, but not for that status herself.
• Entries for singular appearances might or might not be included in a Category; entries like "HCE" would appear as many times as neccesary as long as sufficiently different context exists, and would as well be Categories so that users are easily able to find recurrences. For entries of intermediate recurrence, like "Kate", you'd just list the few (in this case, five) recurrences on the single entry page to which all appearances would resolve.
• I argue for the above system so that the creation of a Category is as meaningful as possible, that is, so it indicates a hierarchy of significance

More on categories

Hello Zakbos (Pocket wood?) and welcome!

I tend to agree with Tip that categories are a useful method of getting from a specific instance to a list of allusions. I think it would be unworkable for all allusions to redirect to a single instance, because I believe that every single allusion will need its own entry to explain why it is different. Take dopedope for instance. It clearly needs discussion to point out that it is Dutch, and then a category entry can take you to all allusions of tauftauf. Just having that overview of all allusions to a theme is extremely educational (imho).

Finally adding [[category:something]] to an entry is an extremely low-cost way of adding a link to the page of allusions!

Best wishes, Pemberton

Re:Re: Categories

• How does one go about making a template?
• Is it feasible to have a category box that updates globally? For example, Kate is mentioned in five places: I.1.27.line31, 3.1.421.line4, 2.1.245.line34, 1.5.113.line21, and 2.1.221.line12. If there were already entries for the first two instances, each would have a Category: Kate box which gives the two page numbers. Say I wanted to add the Kate Strong appearance, 2.1.245.line34. If I added that page, and changed the Category by adding the new page number, would the first two pages also show an updated Category box, now with three page instances listed?
• Which makes me think that perhaps all the glosses of recurring characters should occur on ONE page, with redirects from variants (e.g., "Kate Strong" and "Kathe" would both resolve to the page for "Kate"), and then rather than a Category box at the bottom, a new template would be used to list the page numbers for all the appearances of this recurring figure?
• To answer your question, then, with this new consideration: No, I don't think HCE benefits from being considered as a Category. Rather, all variants should resolve to a single page for the entry, HCE, unless they carry a meaning other than that of the named character, e.g. Howth Castle and Environs should resolve to its own page with glosses for Dublin geography as well as its significance as being the initials of the name.

Re: Categories

• i'm back again (Tip!)
• I assume that you have seen the Categories page and the other topics listed there. So do you agree that a subject like H.C.E. benefits from it's Category listing? If so, then please, read no further.
• I think the purpose was to utilize the Category function for extra-cirricular study on the subjects listed there precisely by making this node available to explore all the other occurances. Of course, most of these subjects do contain some similar information in their specific Page which may be repeated in their Category:Subject page. But such a sensitive editor could easily repair this.
• To put a list of appearances at the first definition page may require a comprehensive (perhaps an unhuman omniscient) understanding of every page in this WakeWiki. Then how would the author of a later page, which could actually be a previously created subject, know that this even exists if it isn't listed on something like the Category page?
• Since Joyce chose to spell words differently (Kate, Kathe, etc), it also creates this opportunity for repetitive information when it isn't categorized.
• Creating a new Category for all recurrences (do you mean like a Category:Recurrances:Kate page?) sounds like just putting a smaller envelope inside a bigger one, making the node lie underneath one more layer of aggregate. Is that what you meant?
• Superfluous it may be, trivial it may become, but i would like to see us try your idea for a template for "Other Appearances". If this could be simple for an author/editor to attach, then would the next occurance of a subject to be created automatically update the previous ones? vice versa?

LETS TRY IT OUT! Here's my challenge: "Thomas A Beckett and Lawrence O' Toole"

• These two characters recur often and various enough for us. There isn't a "Category" page at the moment. If you could link the occurances in a template, show us how it could work.

Thanks for the Tip!

7/24/06

• Hullo, Tip, and thanks for the welcome.
• It was my thinking that the Category doesn't do much to aggregate content helpfully. The list of appearances for recurruring characters should be included at the definition page of the character. This puts the relevant information at the right level of analysis. The alternative is to indicate, by Categorization, that there are other appearances; the user would then have to visit the category page and travel back and forth from that node to explore the other appearances. That's a superfluous step that I don't think is beneficial. While it's helpful to track multiple appearances of characters, objects, tropes, and themes, I'd place this information on the page.
• What might make sense is to create a new Category for recurrences, or, several, for recurring characters, recurring images, etc.
• What do you think of a template for "Other Appearances" to be placed at the bottom of the page, essentially a list of page numbers?

7/24/06

Greetings Zakbos, and welcome to the wiki! This is User:Tip, and I wanted to ask you, why did you delete the Category:Kate page? A short time ago, User:Pemberton began using the Categories to organize characters, phrases, numbers, etc. that were frequently used throughout the Wake. The Categories are a good way for finding the other places that these characters appear. Since "Kate" is a recurring name and character of the Finnegan household, I created the category so that all of her appearances could be tracked in one place. I'm just curious as to why she was removed. Thanks, Tip.